And the reason why we do that is because we have strong beliefs that they're going to be winners in E, S and G. And that we want to be partnering along with them to give them guidance and help support them in that journey to create a better more sustainable world and not just a better, more sustainable portfolio. But not really on fixed income. So it's that you're protecting against the risk of not having a great culture. Again, if you'd have us, would, would love to have you back maybe after the proxy season is closed and we can dig into, to governance and some of the other issues that are front of mind for you. A few years ago, again, they were getting kind of much smaller participation. I always thought I was going to be in equities and an equities analyst or investor, but rotated around in fixed income. I thought that was fascinating, and I don't think I'd actually heard of that kind of bottoms-up application. What gets you out bed in the morning? So that gives us a lot of perverse incentives where instead of doing things for the long term, which often relate very closely with what's kind of sustainable in the true meaning of the word, companies are forced or incentivized to take action in a way that actually just maximizes short-term value. I find mfs like you really interesting photos. And I think a lot of the time that passion is really what gets translated to the performance, to your connections, to your relationships, and to your team motivation. I like it a lot, the whole being more than the sum of its parts. I felt that there was a lot more variety in terms of the different asset classes, obviously the different currencies, the global nature of fixed income, that appealed to me, which is an area again, it's not typical that you would learn a lot about fixed income in general in university or indeed, through other daily events in your life.
Has that happened yet in a meaningful way to your mind or are we not quite there yet? And one of the key things that we look at, aside from integrity and work ethic and the cultural fit, is really adaptability to change. That's why I added that the time dedication is also encompassing for the dog.
You'll also get to join an intimate yearly taco crawl with our award-winning team. So I always enjoy talking to Nicole, who has unbounded enthusiasm for progress and opportunity, as well as a well-formed view of the risks that we all face. Vish Hindocha: So, Nicole, I love that framing of climate change and Disclose, Plan, Act and where we are. So a company has to ideally increase profits enough to cover higher capital investment costs into the future and not just the higher operating costs that they see within the next one or two years. And, you know, that was very evident to me as a five year old in that intersection. I would love that to be true. And every attempt you make to simplify it and compartmentalize it, it reduces your understanding of the world. I find mfs like you really interesting article. I'm a strong believer of diversity in the teams. So because of all of that, and again you touched on the complexity, I agree with you that the short-termism is only likely to exacerbate some of the problems and some of the agency issues, the principal agent issues that you pointed out. That said, even that also doesn't tell us the whole picture.
Bring my loved ones here so u know what i'm saying u be easy bro. I think maybe on embracing complexity and thinking about systems thinking more bottom-up, I do wonder if we could go deeper on some of the sectors and to really kind of unpack some of that complexity. Pilar, just a few questions to end. So I think that's definitely helped me bring some things to the team that perhaps I wouldn't have encountered if I'd have stayed in the world of finance. Having the different perspectives, as I said, can contribute to the two plus two equals five thesis. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. And therefore be able to drive better investment outcomes. Stream i find mfs like u really interesting bro by groovy bot | Listen online for free on. Finally, finally caved in. A number of different guests brought this up. If you are just divesting your heavy emitters and not actually doing anything to try and help them manage the transition to a low-carbon economy, your clean portfolio is still going to be at risk of those systemic risks. And so I just come back to this can't be separate, this can't be something because it is so front and center for every business out there.
So over time, the strategy looks to invest over a full market cycle, we're looking out over that seven to 10 year period, when the market thinks that we will never again focus on sustainability, or we'll never focus again on the importance of climate change, is exactly when we can get great opportunities in stocks. So like to your point, that's a really large number. I find mfs like you really interesting quiz. How do you look to stay not only current, but look ahead and project are these going to be successful, some of these innovations? And I feel, again, there are gestures that are unnecessary, but really kind.
We're starting to see it in some areas of the apparel market in terms of the material production and what the materials are for different products, the recyclability. Again, it's just a little-. Brands specifically, I guess, is a big part of that. So we'll see when our time comes. And it's really helpful to have to lay out our framework so that they also can understand, okay, where does this sit in terms of priorities for our various shareholders? The global fixed income is a big broad universe, but I actually have four kids and a dog. I want to ask you, very early in my career, I was pointed to Michael Mauboussin's book, or at least chapter, on Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, which actually came from the Santa Fe Institute. If it's not fixed income markets or investment markets in general, then it really is occupied by my family and the four kids, the more recent addition of the dog as well.
And related to that, be comfortable with uncertainty and vagueness and nuances, because that is the reality of life. They get good support in terms of training and how to install the products as quickly and as efficiently as possible, and a quick response if things ever do go wrong. I'll maybe add one more, or maybe I'll combine two. Availability of products is also very important. I think one of the things as we grow the fixed income platform, really where you do have these unique asset classes that require expertise within those asset classes is to be able to find any and every occasion for those teams to get together and to be able to share views. So I think that strategy piece is incredibly important. And so sometimes you have a clash at any one point in time. One thing, and they're related, we've spoken about before and I've heard you talk about before in the context of moats. One area within chemicals that comes to mind is the flavors and fragrance industry. What we don't want to see is, you know, through some of these organizations, the big story in the newspaper, I mean, at that point, it's too late, right? Nicole, I'm going to be extremely grateful for your time. I think we're starting to see it in ESG metrics as well.
Ross Cartwright: Dave has really been fascinating. And if you do have any questions that you'd like us to cover, please get in touch by emailing us at. I'm going to have to come up with a menu-based analogy for you later on. So, you know, I am very excited about these changes, and the opportunities that many of the companies will have in front of them to be major players in the area, in the climate space.
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